Awakening from "Al-Qaeda"
I’m torn here between two options. One is going out for a long walk in this warm afternoon and the other, sitting in this cluttered apartment, writing yet another post.
I weighed these two options in my head for some time, then this nagging voice said “if you don’t write it now, you will lose some vital information that needs to get out there. You owe it to Her to record and detail everything you’ve been made aware of...”
I dislike when this inner voice nags me that way. After all, I am tired of being “responsible” with a task I have not really chosen. At least, not on a conscious level. But being the dutiful daughter that I am and keeping my strong streak of rebelliousness under check, here I am sitting typing again...
I therefore ask you to read this post very carefully and make sure you note what’s written between the lines...
I want to share with you the story of one man who woke up from the Al-Qaeda trance.
This story is based on an interview conducted by Al-Arabiya TV. And this man’s name is “Mullah”, Nadhem Al-Jibbouri, from the God forsaken village “Al Dhulueiya” in the Salahedin province.
Nadhem Al-Jibbouri, an imam or a mullah? around 30 years old, was Al-Qaeda spokesperson under Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. He was responsible for issuing Fatwas and responsible for the AQ's “PR” and Information bureau in the Salahedin province.
From a white turbaned man in a Dishdasha, (traditional robe), Nadhem Al-Jibbouri is today a man dressed in a suit with tons of gel on his hair, sitting in front of the Al-Arabiya camera. His new post, as the Awakening man in the Salahedin province earned him that new look.
Why did Nadhem have a change of heart ?
For starters Nadhem Al-Jibbouri was detained by the Americans back in 2004 for six months. After a series of “negotiations” between the elders of his tribe and the US forces, he was released. After all, they argued, he is nothing but an innocent Imam in a Mosque who has been illegally detained. And they are right, as many innocent Iraqis have been detained just because they are affiliated to some mosque.
After his release, Nadhem Al-Jibbouri joined Al-Qaeda, which was then under the leadership of Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi.
Nadhem gives a good insight into who and what Al-Qaeda is, in Iraq.
Al-Qaeda leadership in Iraq, at least in the Salahedin province is made exclusively of “foreigners” for the most part "Arabs" coming from Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. The bulk of the AQ fighters are Iraqis who’ve had previous training in arms (according to him).
The way AQ operates is quite simple. Each village is considered a Wilayat and has its own Emir(prince) and these Emirs report to the higher up leader of the province which can be considered as the Grand Prince, Emir of the emirs. Each village becomes a mini Islamic state AQ style.
The names of these foreign leaders for the most part dead, are ; Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi(Jordan), Abu Obeida Al-Maghrebi (Morocco), Bandar Al-Obeidi(Saudi), Abdel Kareem Al-Masri (Egyptian) amongst others.
According to Nadhem Al–Jibbouri, today there are only 2000 AQ members (both leaders and fighters) in the whole of the Salahedin province, having been squeezed out from major areas by both the Sahwa (Awakening) and the US forces.
They are now mainly concentrated in Diyala whilst before they controlled 70% of all Sunni areas. He adds that AQ is on its way to dissolution, having withdrawn from some major Sunni areas. And he notes that the ones who have been trained as suicide bombers have been given away to other armed "militias" and he would not say whom.
I believe he meant the sectarian Shiite militias. The reason I believe this is because Nadhem Al-Jibbouri, textually said that the Awakenings had good relations with the Iraqi Resistance of the Islamic Army in Iraq (IAI) and with the Reform and Jihad group. In other words the Awakenings are not anti-Resistance and he adds as long as these “people don’t spill innocent Iraqi blood, whatever their sects or religion."
He added that Abu Salman al-Oteibi another AQ Emir from the Salahedin province, has now extended his operations to Kirkuk and Mosul.
According to Nadhem Al-Jibbouri, the people of Mosul see AQ as more merciful than the Peshmergas- the Kurdish militias. You need to make a note of that in your head, for when the coming Mosul battle goes full fledge, as promised by PM Al-Maliki yesterday, who said it's going to happen in the coming days.
So back to the question, why did Nadhem Al-Jibbouri have a change of heart ?
According to him, this took place when he realized that AQ killed more Iraqis in general and Sunnis in particular, than Americans.
He gives the number of 30’000 Sunnis in the Salahedin province alone, and 30’000 Sunnis in prisons , some in US prisons and some in AQ run prisons.
He adds that the brutality, violence and oppression that the Sunni population experienced under AQ raised many interrogation marks in his head.
Torture, beheadings, sieges of villages...where AQ would not allow food, water and electricity... Anyone wanting to seek a job in the Iraqi Police, was executed, (seems that the only jobs available for Iraqis today is to join the Iraqi police), the massacring of people in mosques and he gives an example of the local mosque in Dhulueiyah, called Al-Imran mosque where 1’000 men in prayer were attacked by the AQ in broad daylight.
He gives another example again from his village (who has 180 people with higher educational degrees and he kept repeating that number-- you must admit it’s not bad for a small forsaken village -–these people must be thankful to the previous government who extended education to the most remote places! Just have a look at the state of the Universities in today’s “liberated” Iraq). So in that village, in the space of 5 years the U.S killed 80 men, while the AQ, in the space of 2 months killed 275 men.
But there are more important examples that stick out like a sore thumb.
He said that AQ was deliberately killing ex-army officers who had over 25 years of experience and who were engaged in the Iraq- Iran war. This point was mentioned by Dr.Ibrahim Al Shammari as well, in his interview not long ago. (see here)
I will get to other important examples towards the end of the story. So keep reading...
Back to Nadhem and his love affair with AQ, gone sour.
So when AQ found out that Nadhem had a change of heart and issued a Fatwa against anyone who collaborates with them, they put a 100'000$ prize on his head. They tried killing him, but he escaped the assassination attempt but his brother was hit with gun shots, and his aide killed. This was the turning point in Nadhem’s "ideological outlook". And this is when he decided to join the Awakenings or Al-Sahwa.
But there were conditions that had to be respected...a mediator was needed.
That mediator is a relative by the name of Abdullah Hussein Jebara, who is Deputy Governor of Salahedin. Now, Mr Jebara’s brother who was a tribal Chief, was killed by AQ and the body of the deceased has not been found till this day. Mullah Nadhem called him to give his condolences and wanted to meet his relative.
The Deputy Governor, said he will meet Nadhem on two conditions. One is that he definitely leaves AQ and two that he needs to be sure that Nadhem “has no innocent Iraqi blood on his hands.” Once these two conditions are met, the Deputy Governor will extract guarantees from the US forces not to arrest his relative, Nadhem Al-Jibbouri. Nadhem was given clearance and he became one of the leaders of the Awakening in the Salahedin province.
Both, Mullah Nadhem and Abdallah Hussein Jebara have more to say about AQ. So keep reading...
When asked what methods the AQ used to attract Iraqis to its ranks. Nadhem says that the concept of Jihad is a known concept to most Iraqis and most Iraqis frequent mosques. AQ uses this concept to attract Iraqis with promises, but they are further indoctrinated to the point of becoming “under the influence”.
To illustrate his point he gives the example of Camp Bucca. Camp Bucca is a notorious U.S prison in Iraq. And Nadhem says that he told the Americans on many occasions that they should NOT mix the AQ detainees with other Iraqis in the same camp, because of that “influence”.
He gives an example of a 17 year old boy who was "under the influence" of AQ in the Bucca prison, and who murdered 5 Iraqis detainees in his cell. He says that executions of Iraqis detainees by AQ detainees are common.
He also says that he doesn’t understand why the Americans keep releasing AQ prisoners from the camp, even though the Americans have been told that these prisoners falsify their ID’s and move under these fake ID’s to other areas in Iraq.. Re-read that paragraph and several times, if necessary.
As for the future of AQ in Iraq
- As I mentioned above, he sees the leadership or what is left of it, moving to Kirkuk and Mosul.
- That the already trained suicide bombers, all very young for the most part, have been given away to other “ militias”
- that the leadership is definitely under the control of “neighboring countries”, he would not mention which countries but his relative the Deputy did.
-That Iraq will be witnessing an upsurge of “female suicide bombers” due to the “enormous pressures” exerted on the families of the AQ fighters, wives and daughters, and that this is backfiring.
-That those who support AQ are people who “are very far removed from the areas in which AQ is present”.
-That the Iraqi Sunnis will never forgive AQ for what it has done to Iraqis, whatever their sect.
-That many Iraqi fighters withdrew from AQ and he defies AQ to find any support in the Sunni population. That AQ is on its way to dissolution (moving to Mosul perhaps!).
On the Awakenings this is what he had to say:
- The American occupation is a fait accompli. They are physically present in huge numbers, "this is not something we want, but this is the reality."
- The Sahwa has saved the Sunnis from extermination by both the AQ and the Shiite militias. And that it played a very important role in economically developing the Sunnis areas and most importantly in “restoring a balance of forces.” He refrained from saying much on the current regime, but he did say that “ideological differences” are there to reckon with. But for the moment, preserving the Sunnis and Iraqis regardess of their sect, is his most important task.
When asked by the interviewer what Nadhem Al-Jibbouri thought of the latest Zawahiri message to AQ in Iraq this is what he said “Why doesn’t Zawahari target the Shias of Iran, why is he against the Arab Shias of Iraq?.”
The Deputy Governor Abdallah Hussein Jebara had also a few things to say about AQ, which his relative Nadhem Al-Jibbouri didn’t overtly mention.
First he gave his opinion on AQ, saying that it is a terrorist organization and that Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was the biggest terrorist in Iraq. He says that his relative Nadhem, believed Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi up to a point and then realized that AQ was no longer under Al-Zarqawi's control and that he was co-opted by a country. That his relative was only an "information officer" and that his followers who did not have innocent Iraqi blood on their hands were allowed to join the Awakenings. Those who did have blood on their hands were put to trial.
One very, very, interesting point he mentioned is that Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, arrived from Afghanistan via Iran accompanied by 300 foreign fighters. That he stayed in Iran for a while before landing in Iraq. That, when Al-Zarqawi was wounded the first time, he was transported to Iran, for medical treatment.
This Deputy governor unequivocally adds, that he has in his possession many documents proving the links between AQ leaders and Iran.
This is not the first time that this connection is mentioned, other people have said it before, and they are ordinary Iraqis who have nothing to do with politics. I did mention it myself in some of my previous posts.
He also said that Iran not only funds AQ through its embassies in neighboring countries and in Iraq, but also provide training camps for the AQ leaders in Iran. And that such meetings have been recorded and documented.
This exact same statement was made by another Iraqi politician who is a member of parliament by the name of Abdul Aziz Al-Timimi, who also said that Iranian intelligence is very much involved with the AQ’s operations in Iraq and that he too, has proof of it.
Now the reader is getting very confused, I understand. Why would Iran who is Shiite support AQ who is supposedly an all Sunni terror organization ?
And this is what the Deputy Governor replied. He said “I am going to give a political reply not a religious one. Iran wants a theocracy in Iraq, its style of theocracy. For the areas where Shiites are more influential, Iran funded and backed the sectarian Shiite militias” and he gave the example of Basrah. “In areas where Sunnis were most influential, Iran needed to penetrate these areas and it did so with AQ.” It's true that it's much easier for AQ to penetrate "predominantly" Sunni areas than Shiite areas and dominate and oppress its inhabitants.
But the Deputy’s take on the AQ story doesn’t stop there...
He also affirms that AQ is not only funded and infiltrated by Iranian intelligence alone but also by the Mossad. And that these foreign AQ leaders were heavily penetrated by the Mossad intelligence in their countries of origins. (Saudi, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan, Egypt…)
And it doesn’t stop there either. Some of them, turned out not to be Muslims for starters.
When prompted to give a proof of how this can be so, he gave the example, a rather comical one straight from a black humor series.
One of the foreign AQ Emirs in the Al-Tharthar/ Samarra province wanted to marry the daughter of one of his Iraqi fighters. The marriage took place and two days later the daughter returns to her father wanting a divorce. When asked why, she said that her newly wed husband was not circumcised. So the Emir was “interrogated” (Iraqi style presumably) about this, and he finally admitted that he was not a Muslim.
The Deputy then adds that many of the AQ leaders/emirs captured and interrogated, turned out not to be Muslims. He did not say whether they were all checked for circumcision or not!
He used this example to illustrate the penetration of foreign intelligence in AQ.
And the story continues...
And as I have already reported the exact same in my previous post a year ago, the Deputy Governor, confirms that -- in the Babel province, several hundreds of Jews have been buying land there. Remember Babel is considered a holy land by the Zionists. They incite land owners with heavy cash, but they don’t buy the land directly themselves, they give proxies to “individuals” who undertake the transaction on their behalf. He added that they (the Jews) had a "long term plan"
It seems that the “Iraqi” government is aware of these land acquisitions. The deputy governor refused to comment if AQ was also involved in that...
I guess I’ve said enough so far. I will withhold my own conclusions from the reader and strongly encourage you to come to your own. Will maybe share mine in an update or in the comment section, or maybe not at all, as they probably are evident already...
But whatever conclusions you come to, and whatever your political leanings and beliefs are, you must admit one thing, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A DIRTIER WAR OF OCCUPATION THAN THIS ONE. It will go down in History as the filthiest known to humankind.
And who can we thank but the Zionist Americans and their Muta’a concubines.
Painting: Iraqi artist, Saad Al-Mussawi.
He was standing there before some cameras outside and beside him was Lieberman; a Jew. McCain goes on to say as the cameras are rollin'...that Iran is sending AQ into Iraq. he continiues on and in about 10 seconds, Lieberman comes at McCain's side and whispers into McCain's ear.
Apparently Lieberman said something to McCain that caused McCain to apologize and he made a change right there on the spot..with cameras rollin. McCain changed hiw words to say that Iran was arming insurgents.
McCain went from originally saying Iraq was arming AQ to (after Joe Lieberman whispered in his ear )..to saying Iran was arming insurgents.
I have always thought that interesting in that McCain may have been more correct with his first statement but was made to change it.
here's that McCain 'slip of the lip'
EXCELLENT OBSERVATION. I noticed that bit too and have totally forgotten about it.
And remember that Liebermann is a stauch ZIONST.
Thanks for reminding us all of that very important piece of info.
McCain originally said that - Iran was supporting AQ in Iraq.
McCain then adjusted and said that IRAN is supporting extremists.
and this interview was in Jordan.
I agree with what you say Layla.
I dont know why AQ members are being set free by US forces though, unless ( as you say ) that AQ consists of so many types of persons now.
Maybe AQ IS American....or atleast an American Nationalists mother. The way those building came down and that whole white-wash makes me think sometimes that AQ IS American owned.
sorry for the confusion above. You knew what I meant :-)
Youtube video explains it for others not familiar with it.
Just remember Layla..be patient with me cuz Im American..I type with one finger becus all the others are up my ass. ha :-o
Then ofcourse we have the blacked out pages showing 'some things' about Saudi Arabia that were better left secret.
Osama Bin Laden GOT THRU yet again??? ...in this Tora Bora 'fight' that took place. Some reports have stated that US forces were airlifting Osama's fighters out of the region AFTER a safe flight passage was set up to get into Pakistan.
Osama Bin Laden is the apparent mastermind behind 9/11 and GOT THRU probably the most expensive / supposedly sophisticated national defense systems to hi-jack 4 jet airliners????
And NOW, the US military is letting AQ go in Iraq?
I am bowled over by your comment on Babel Province, and about Jews buying land by proxy. I'm sorry to say this, Layla, but my rage is directed towards the traitor IRAQIS, who have been so easily enticed and bought by MONEY. This is unforgiveable. It's already a known fact that the north is flooded with Zionists who have been welcomed by the Kurds.
As you've very correctly pointed out, there has never been a DIRTIER war of occupation than what's happening in Iraq. In addition to the initial invasion and occupation by the US/UK, it has led to the multiple occupation by other countries, primarily Iran; Iraq is flooded with monsters from neighbouring countries, and, to make matters worse, there are Iraqis who are complicit and committing treason in all this. The picture looks very bleak, and I pray that the honourable Iraqi Resistance is showered with all blessings from God in order to protect and keep what belongs to Iraqis.
I also get the feeling that the US anticipation that Iraq would be a 'cakewalk' has long evaporated, and that the US has got itself into such a huge mess that it will be very difficult to extricate itself from - most likely, in the future, to slink out of Iraq with its tail between its legs, shamed and destroyed. I see all the other 'forces' USING the US occupiers to meet their own goals and conniving to 'work with the US' when it suits them.
I must admit your article has given me an incredibly 'sinking' feeling. This is one very EVIL occupation,, and, although all occupations are evil, this one surpasses all that have come before.
Not too sure I can agree with some of what you said/concluded.
Firstly, the source of information you are using is Al-Sahwa and Al-Arabiya. Now, Al-Sahwa are complete traitors and sell-outs who have been formed by the US occupation and are maintained and funded by the same - hence they have zero credibility to speak about anything, especially when related to the fight for liberation (which they are not a part of - by the way). The second is Al-Arabiya which is a Saudi run station that is more pro-occupation than even Fox News (they run crap ads every day telling Iraqis to basically support the occupation by joining the puppet police/military and by giving information for any resistance activity they see).
Secondly, it is obvious that the noble Resistance has control of most of Salah Al-Deen province, especially the city of Mousel. The occupation and its puppets have been trying (and failing) for some time to fight the Resistance in this province. Suddenly, we get Sahwa garbage like this person telling us that the fictional boogey man (Al-Qaeda) is on the run and has moved into Salah Al-Deen as its last stronghold (yeah - sure!).
Mousel would never and can never be a foothold for Al-Qaeda because the people there are mainly military officers, and, the people there are not Salafi (unlike the Iraqis in and around the Anbar province) - therefore, the Salafi garbage ideology of Al-Qaeda would never find any welcome.
As for Al-Qaeda, I disagree with you completely that they are Iranian or Iranian backed. Al-Qaeda is a US/Saudi invention which was used primarily after 9-11 to allow the US a false pretex to carry out most of its military action in the Muslim regions.
In any case, I believe the Iraqis in particular and most Muslims in general have woken up to the fact that Al-Qaeda is a US pawn.
That being said, I do not believe Osama Bin Laden was ever a US/Saudi collaborator and, from reviewing his words and actions, I believe he was sincere (though misguided) - he has most prbably been dead since December 2001. However, I cannot say the same for Zawahri who clearly spews propaganda which almost always indirectly supports fake US statements and claims.
The game is big, and the stakes are high...But we will win.
Salutations to Izzat Al-Douri, the legal and legitimate President of the Republic of Iraq.
Chalabi has been involved in this illegal invasion into Iraq and appears to have ties with Iran.
The need for money can be and is a very powerful motivator.
Every day Mexicans take risks to get into the United States to try to earn money. They need money to support themselves or need money for different reason for their families back in Mexico.
What I saw developing in Iraq ( and I may be wrong, this is just my personal opinion),is that many many Iraqis after the invasion were left in a situation where they were in desperate need of money. They needed money for even he most basic of necessities and this included medicines too.
The United States used this. So many Iraqis were in need of money that they joined the Police or the Military.
If the United States is successful in putting an economic / fiancial pinch on Iran, it could lead to 'disruptions' inside Iran. The United States is using a recent UN resolution to try to isolate 2 major banks inside Iran by saying that doing any business at all inside Iran, is not just risky in a business sense, but also may lead one to be looked at as dealing with a " sponsor of terror ".
I've read where the US is behind the move to try to force Qatar banks from doing business with Iranains.
When the citizens of a country begin to experience hardships due to lack of goods, citizens usually begin to rumble or look (perhaps even blame) their own government.
One of the propaganda tools the United States government did before invading Iraq in 2003 was to try to get Iraqis to warm to the idea of being invaded. They even told Americans that Iraqis want 'freedoms / liberty / democracy' like ours. (ha this is a joke..we people have no democracy but thats a long story).
Bush uses an Iranian radio to try to 'get' to Iranian citizens by saying to the people of Iran that the problem is the government and not you...not you the people of Iran. Its the same thing they told to Iraqis.
IF, the US can get the people of Iran to begin feeling the sanctions, the financial embargo and get them into a condition where some/many can be more easily persuaded, they will have this type of motivation inside Iran. Money can be used.
When people are poor or are in desperate need, they are more willing to 'work with' you.
The US corporate government can not hit Iran militarily. World gas prices would go thru the roof and from what I understand, Iran has basically all the pipeline components in place. I have also read where Israel is getting gas from Iran indirectly. The gas is shipped to Europe and from there it goes to Israel. Iran has had years to dig in, in a military sense.
The G-7's dont want any disturbances in the gas flow from Iran. But, I would think they want to 'gently nudge' Iran into alignment.
Could have not said it better.
I have responsed to some of the issues you raised in my latest post which is a response to Layth's comment. It does cover ground.
You said "The United States used this. So many Iraqis were in need of money that they joined the Police or the Military. "
Actually the only jobs open to Iraqis today is joining the police and the so called armed forces.
It is a deliberate policy by both the US occupier and the puppet govt.
And they used to say that Iraq was a police state, HA! Bunch of disgusting motherfuckers.
As for your Iran anaylsis....am not sure, I don't share the same scenario as yours.
"I had an Iraqi virtual friend who had fell "under the influence". He disappeared abruptly after revealing it to me. I never heard of him again since. He was a nice, delicate human being..."
Many people who read and agree with this blog are falling for the same siren song as your friend. The devil tells them what they lust to hear - that the Americans and Mossad are responsible for all wrongs - and they fall under his spell. Just listen to what is being said: "DIRTIER [jew] WAR" "EVIL [Americans] occupation", "AQ IS American owned" - no amount of logic can argue with it. It is runaway insanity which serves to galvanize the next generation of "Resistance", the next generation of broken souls and broken dreams.
Great post until you fell UNDER THE INFLUENCE with "AQ is not only funded and infiltrated by Iranian intelligence alone but also by the Mossad". Let me lend some logic into that hateful hot flashing head of yours: AQ, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. are groups which form an existential threat to Isreal. Hello??? AQ is the ENEMY of the US. The US and Isreal's interest is in the destruction of these groups, not funding them. WHY DO I HAVE TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS????? WHY DO ARABS TEND TO GO OFF THE DEEP END WITH CONSPIRACY THEORIES??
Who cares if Jews are buying a few acres of useless desert. Are you worried they might turn it into another piece of prosperity like they did for Isreal? Are you worried they will start a small country?
Lets say they build a "settlement" and close off access to outsiders. What will you do then? Simple, raise their property taxes! DUH, it's still YOUR country. Make whatever law you like. If you want, use Iraqi "Eminent Domain" to build a highway or mosque through the middle of their area.
Of course I would advise against driving them out - there goes that SWEET property tax revenue you were getting. But of course you won't listen to me. WHY NEGOTIATE YOUR WAY TO WEALTH WHEN YOU CAN CHASE THEM AWAY AND FEEL BETTER? Why earn your money and become rich when you can piss and moan and blame others?
km said: "we people [Americans] have no democracy but thats a long story" No democracy? I voted for Bush twice, voted for senators, judges, and even the freaking school budget. KM, WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? I own property and pay less than 33% total taxes. Sounds like a capitalist republican democracy to me. km, obviously if you hate America, and can't get communists elected, why don't you get out? Go to some loser country where they give a crap what you think.
Greg from USA
You keep goin along thinkin you have democracy. You think you have a democracy because you go to the booth and vote. How do I say this?...there are 'interests' that make or break a candidate. And how much money exactly does one need to put up to run fro president?
Greg, spend some time to know yer country..who owns yer country, who runs it... its not you and its not I.
Listen to New York Cith firefighters and some others on what they say about the WTC events. But maybe those Americans are lying as far as yer concerned.
Are there 'good Americans"? Yeah, I believe there are. I see them donating wat theycan to help the poor whether those poor be in America or in places around this World we live in. But to think or believe that you actually have control over what goes on behond closed doors in the Oval Office, within the walls of the FBI or the CIA..or you know what is going on inside the corridors of the Pentagon and You have Control over it, is very far from the truth and the definition of a democracy.
You elect yer judges Greg? Have them show you where it is legal to pay personal income taxes.
..and while yer at it,ask them about Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports. Show Me The Money.
You THINK you control the United Staes government. Thats good. Thats what they want. You go on thinkin that.
Maybe you Greg, should join the military.
There are many many people from America moving out for many reasons. Many are retiring overseas. Others are leaving becasue they are fed up with the system. Others know that America is Not number one. They are tired of a crooked corrupt government, the crime, the lifestyle...many reasons and there's some beautiful places in this World still.
I hope you stay in America.
Why would people dig such a long tunnel to escape the paradise of the proletariat?
km, Thanks for your response. I will try and answer some of your points.
Greg from USA
How do you know they don't have a bunch of "black ops" folks over there as well, gumming up the works?
Greg from USA
At that point I was contacted by an employer here in the States and I chose to stay; knowing full well that should I decide to leave again, I can do that. And that is exactly what I am going to do and am presently working on. I have decided on the country and my 'friend' has purchased a home there.
I am not a native of the country I have chosen. But many of my acquaintences that are of the country have already purchased homes there. They moved to the States, worked and had children and now many are going back and they are taking their monies they have saved with them. :-)
One lady I know that was born in that country, has a White American husband, 3 kids, a home and she runs her own business here in America. She also operates a business overseas where she was born. BUT, she has purchased a new home overseas as well as 3 new homes for her kids when they are out of college. Sha and her husband are not the only ones doing this...and I am certainly not the last.
Some may say, "well she USED America. She came over here, saved her money, made a life here and now is gonna take it all and leave. Is this the THANKS we get?"
I say, if ya dont like it, then DO something about it.
Greg, perfection wont be found anywhere on this World. One cannot run from corruption, crime and so on. More than a few people around me continually say, ' but yeah...but yer walking away from a good job that pays well and yer leaving America." My response is' Yep, I am aren't I?" :-)
I believe I look at Life different than you Greg.
"I believe I look at Life different than you Greg." I guess so. I suppose this other country you speak of is familiar, so it is "better" for you.
If people come here, make money, then leave or send the money back home, I don't think it is so bad, after all they had to WORK for that money
I got through the first Tatum film. I don't know if it is true or not. It does not matter. I believe that much worse crimes have been committed by men in power and the CIA in particular. You have criminals wherever you go.
Greg from USA
Greg? Dont you in even the least bit feel somewhat responsible..in some little way? OR not even feel motivated to help these People, no matter where they are?
Saving quantities of 'wealth' is not what gives me a 'quality of Life'. Saving it for my 'later years or the golden years' is not a top priority. People need peace Greg. They want to be able to live, to fall in love, to have children and BE ABLE to puruse their dreams, visit family and good friends.
Where Im going, I will be in a position to help others to try to do that. This is what motivates me. This is what brings 'quality' for me.
"[don't] you in even the least bit feel somewhat responsible" The mistakes the CIA made in propping up anti-communist dictatorships were considered necessary evils at the time. Remember we were fighting a ruthless enemy. Communism was bent on world domination. Some people argue that it still is.
When a democracy takes over, you can overthrow it simply by voting in communists. When communists take over, how are you supposed to change things? (by the divine intervention of God!) We, in the west, were blessed in three ways: 1) The Soviet Union broke up peacefully 2) China is on a path where there is at least a chance that it will choose to become a [non-threatening] semi democratic state. 3) Iraq has turned around - all we need to do is establish one successful democracy in the Middle East as an example for the rest of the region. There is really still hope for the world.
The concept of NOT living under oppression and misery is only a few hundred years young, from this perspective, the CIA deserves a slap on the wrist for its misdeeds.
"[don't you] feel motivated to help these People, no matter where they are?" I do feel very motivated to help people. That is why I try and talk some sense into the fire breathers on this blog. Maybe I can soften them before they manage to compound the world's misery.
"People need peace Greg. They want to be able to live..."
Being wealthy is only a priority so that I am in a position to advance charitable causes. I advocate wealth for everyone because let's face it, if everyone were materially satisfied, there would be a lot fewer wars. However, for me, for now, my family does come first.
Since the US is the [current] leader of the free world, we are responsible to do what we can to protect freedom; to make the world "safe for democracy". Sometimes that means preemptive war. I have learned the lesson of WWII, that abdicating our responsibility to defend freedom will not provide "peace for our time".
"I will be in a position to help others..." Good for you, I hope you are successful. However, when you speculate that "that US forces were airlifting Osama's fighters out of the region", you feed into the conspiracy paranoia that paralyzes the Arab world. It is time for them to build their future and move on with their lives.
Greg from USA
From this, it seems as if in the not too far away future,the people in the USA may get angry, just like the people did in Haiti. But then the US government has all its terrorist laws in place in readiness. Sadly, for many people, they will come to realise that the terrorist laws were installed by the US-led corporate global governments of most countries around the world in expectation of future domestic unrest, which will occur due to their anti-people unsustainable global corporate system.
One never knows, if the US National Guard are being used in Iraq, perhaps the US/Zionist government might have to rely on the services of 'Al-Qaeda'. After all 'Al-Qaedas' only have to be basically reactionaries, and not particularly Middle Eastern.
of course they make use of some of their jewish arab israeli citizens in this fashion.
These you may find interesting:
I thought I would search under "Al Qaeda and Mossad" and see what hits I would get.
AQI killed a sheikh over his refusal to give daughters of his tribe to them in marriage, which created a revenge obligation (tha’r) on his people, who attacked AQI. The terrorists retaliated with immense brutality, killing the children of a prominent sheikh in a particularly gruesome manner, witnesses told us.
when i read about the marriage aspect..incidentally he mentioned AQ immersing itself into the tribes thru marriage ("Some tribal leaders told me that the split started over women. .. One of AQ’s standard techniques.... The strategy works by creating a bond with the community, exploiting kinship-based alliances, and so “embedding” the AQ network into the society.), something triggered so i went on a search. at the link(if you frequent those sites) you can read all the neonuts who link to this info, from kagan @ NRO,max boot..goldfarb@ william the bloody kristol's weekly standard..
propaganda central. they specialize in weaving enough truth into a whole lotta lyin' goin' on, just to make it plausible.
anyway, it is a good source for finding out the what the military mouthpieces are saying.
Thank you for bringing 'quality' to this thread, you inspire me to share a Zen koan, very appropriate:
"The only Zen you find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring up there."
Google will not allow me to comment, this is Nur ARIS from Turkey.