Imagine !

I read a piece of news today, you probably saw it too.
The Vatican and Ze Pope - by the way, I want copyrights on the "Ze" since I was the first on blogosphere to use it, and I have noticed others making generous use of it, with no credit given . What else do people want to steal ???

Anyways I wast telling you about this piece of news - It is only now, 42 YEARS LATER, that the Vatican forgave John Lennon for stating 42 YEARS AGO, that the Beatles are greater than Jesus-Christ.

I can understand that was bad taste from the Beatles, and I do think it is blasphemy, when the Beatles put themselves above Jesus or Issa in Arabic -the son of Mary, a thousand Peace and Blessings upon him...It is arrogant indeed. But 42 years is a tad too long in my opinion.

After all, the Beatles, did sing for Hare Khrishna, and for My Sweet Lord and Mother Mary in Let it Be...And it was just a stupid, unthoughtful phrase uttered by John Lennon.

But let me ask you something here - How many years would it take for the IRAQIS to forgive the Americans and their willing coalition of criminals ?

After all, America is BEHAVING like God, detaining the right of Life and Death over innocent people. After all America thinks and believes it is greater than God Himself....

So how many years do you think it will take the Iraqis to forgive this false God ?

42 years, 100 years, a 1000 years ?

It took the Vatican itself and Ze Pope, 42 years to forgive a singer for a sentence. How long will it take the 1.3 million dead, the 3 million widows, the 5 million orphans, the 4 million maimed, the 5 million in forced exile -- and am not counting the destitutes, the homeless, the sick from Cancer thanks to D.U, the burned from cluster bombs and Napalm, the raped and the tortured, the broken traumatized souls...

How long will it take us to forgive ?

How long would it take us -- according to you,turn the other cheek, people ?

Think about it. And if the answer still eludes you, you can always seek council from the Vatican and Ze Pope.

Imagine - จินตนาการ..ว่ามวลมนุษย์จะอยู่กันอย่างสันติ

and when in doubt :

When in Doubt, Fuck It - John Lennon

Painting : Iraqi artist, Bassil Al-Obaidi.


KM said…
Never fergive it. Mistakes can be fergiven. Admitting a wrong can be a means to try to achive fergiveness.

What happened to Iraq, was intentional and wrapped with lie after lie..and still is.

Do not fergive an active lie.
Kali Manitou said…
I became an alien yesterday, looking at the world from my spaceship
There was a slaveholder with a chain, the other hand on his hip
The chain was fixed to another human, with darker skin and less clothes
Slave and the master, I could tell who is who from their pose
One thing was common to both, paradoxically it was what binds them together
Both couldn't drop the chain, for them both it was their tether
Neither was free, nor a little happy, for they lived at the end of their tether
Intimate they were, since paradoxically they were together
But I am an alien, I do ok being alone
So I die willingly instead of being a slave
I happen to be unique, I won't be a clone
So I move on freely, everyone from the past I already forgave.....
Anonymous said…
only god is all good, only the devil is all bad, the world in the middle is a mix of good and bad and we can't but learn to befriend its secretly harmonious ambivalence.
Anonymous said…
If you cannot forgive, then blame the right persons - George W. Bush and his administration - and not the American people who have spoken and voted against the war over and over and over again. I do not forgive them and actively seek impeachment. He is a despot who stole an election - not once, but twice! And he is so unpopular that he has broken all records in this category and is anathema to most of his own political party.

If you think you are alone in the suffering caused by this war, raise your head and look around. And don't presume to speak about America in such broad terms that only reveal your gross ignorance. Your subjectivity is not becoming to one so intelligent, sensitive and would-be sophisticated. At least acknowledge that this is your opinion and do not state your many, emotional theorems as truth, for the bias you bring is very evident to anyone whose knowledge and vision exceeds your own.

You are, however, justly entitled to your deep emotions and the rage, which I share. Perhaps outrage is the better word.

Wise Man: you are truly wise! Thank you!
Anonymous said…
Will Layla ever forgive herself for having fled to safety leaving Iraq with one less guardian ?
Layla Anwar said…

I liked your comment, very wise indeed. I thought about it and what you say has a lot of truth.
A mistake, error can be corrected and forgiven, a repeated mistake can be argued over and be forgiven too, but a deliberate LIE, a perpetuating LIE cannot be forgiven.
How right you are !
Layla Anwar said…

my oh my, the prose is gushing forth...keep at it.
Layla Anwar said…
"Wise" man?

Befriend its secretly harmonious ambivalence ? You mean like in Iraq ?
Give it a rest wise man and go back to your cave.
Layla Anwar said…

Another people of the LIE.
So you blame G.Bush huh ?
And who voted for him and his consorts twice, an 8 years tenure - my grandfather ???
And I suppose you believe that Obama is the new american messiah who is greater than God too !
Bloody hell, you people are a hopeless case. Go and preach your moralistic shit elsewhere. Have seen enough of YOUR gross ignorance, and your deceit.

A people truly incapable of Truth, self Truth.

Illa Jahanam.
Layla Anwar said…

Another "wise" crack ?
I like to believe that am more effective ALIVE than DEAD - courtesy of America and Iran.
Kali Manitou said…
Layla, thank you again.
One of the things that impressed me about your blog from very beginning was the artistic integrity, the piece of art accompanying the article. In the realm of beauty one comes across truth and truth is always beautiful in it its wholesomeness. Even when the words were insufficient, the page left me with a sense of expansion.
Well, if the expansion is so sudden and forceful, it's called an 'explosion.
I was a keg of gunpowder, your writing became the open flame.
But if it's true art, noone can take the blame.
I never prostrate anymore and never went to Haj
I didn't know the dove, never heard of the Saj
The poet and prophets can suck balls for all I care
What came out of their wisdom is pure nightmare
I lost all reason, it's devoid of rhythm and rhyme
One thing I hope, that what i write is a mortal crime.
But don't call my child just a prose or poetry
For in my world there's no class, nor gentry
Anonymous said…
Forgiveness can be granted by those who have the power to persecute or to forgive. Till then these war crimes will only intensify the struggle to bring back the Khilafah. With the might of the Khilafah will we then judge amongst these criminals.
KM said…
Sure..think about a relationship between two persons. One does an act that hurts the other and damages the trust that exists between the two.

If that act is stopped, fergiveness atleast has a chance to take place and trust may be able to be re-built.

But if one asks for fergiveness while still carrying out the harmful act..and will continue to do so in the future..only a fool with no self respect will accept the continuation of the act.

Think of how many 'acts' around this one World that the United States has committed that has destroyed so many lives. The United States military and/or the United States CIA have committed crimes in Hawaii, the Mid East (including Iran), South East Asia, Central America, South Anerica, Europe,Central Asia and even within the United States borders....while continually claiming it is the leader in justice, human rights, morality, democracy, wealth and freedoms.

I see a pattern.

I have never seen a representative of 'US leadership' admit to a wrong from these past acts and ask for a fergiveness. Instead...the United States keeps moving committing the same old acts and is doing so presently and will continue to do so in the future.
Obama will be the same.

Everything that crossed into Iraq..the military, the contractors and business folks, the politicos..everything that was/is a part of the illegal invasion and everything coming inti Iraq on the heels of the illegal invasion...Should Not Be.

All the deaths, all the family members gone forever, all the ones living with their wounds, all the ones that had to flee, all the ones needing jobs or needing a place to even live...all of it..are the results of a package of lies.

A big part of when one asks for a fergiveness, is that the offender must realize the destruction their acts have created. They need to do some real soul-searching and hopefully their behavior will change. Re-establishing trust will not have a chance unless this first takes place.

The United States, which is responsible for the detruction inside of Iraq, has never changed its behavior thru its uses of the military and the CIA over the span of decades.

Sorry for the long post (but) it seems t ome that so many World 'leaders' somewhere in time, have taken a wrong turn and are walking down a path that is dark and threatening. Yes, a country has a need for a defense...its the World we live in. But to take those defenses and use them to commit offenses on others, is going down a dark path.

Thanks for the reply Layla.
You are in my thoughts every day. more thing. I was on Youtube last night watching & listening to quite a few of Adolph Hitler's speeches and footage of Germany's military machine and his hopes and plans for Germany's future. There is so much in his ideology that mirrors what US 'leadership' believes in and says.
Anonymous said…
Thanks Layla. The issue of forgiveness has come up very often, something very complex even on an individual level.

Iraq was illegally invaded and is occupied based on blatant LIES which were obvious even to the most ignorant observers. Right up to the 19th of March, 2003, demonstrations by ordinary people took place around the globe in the hope that this bestial war of aggression on an innocent and already crippled (through 13 years of UN sanctions backed by USUK) would not take place. Perhaps, those who demonstrated worldwide did not know the politics involved but what they DID know was how this would affect thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians - their premonitions were accurate, and the result was far WORSE than anyone could have ever imagined. Some of the 'reasons' given by that psychopath/mendacious leader of the US was 'weapons of mass destruction', and connecting Iraqis/President Saddam Hussein to 9/1l, etc., etc. Recalling those weeks prior to the attack on Iraq still has the effect of filling one with (justified) rage, particularly after having witnessed the deaths of millions of innocent Iraqis, not to mention those who have been displaced both within and outside Iraq. Add to this the thousands upon thousands of Iraqi orphans - resulting in unprecedented numbers of street children (who would have been cared for by the society under normal circumstances bearing in mind that Iraqi children belong to the entire community/society), widows, disruption of normal life and loss of livelihood, tearing up of the social fabric, physical and emotional traumas, psychological trauma which will have effects for generations, cancers caused by the use of DU and deaths through the use of phosphorous, entire cities flattened, ethnic strife (which did not exist prior to 2003) ... This barbarous attack included the murder of Iraq's legitimate leader, President Saddam Hussein following a farce 'trial' - by even the most basic standards - and in collaboration with the puppet 'government' imposed on Iraqis through a sham 'election' process.

Governments are elected by and represent their people - and so it is with the US which trumpets to all and sundry that it is a 'democracy'. 'Democracy' which it claims it wants to spread, mainly to weak nations in which it has a strategic interest.

So, when one comes across USans who claim that The Psychopath 'stole' both elections, this does make a mockery of the US claims of being a 'democracy', doesn't it? If, for the sake of argument, this was really the case, then, surely, there exist mechanisms to have had this fraudulent murderer removed? There have been lone voices for impeachment, but they've never had widespread support from the people. Why? If USans were truly outraged about the carnage that has been caused in Iraq IN THEIR NAMES, surely, they'd be clamouring for impeachment/trial/justice/

One notes that the current President-elect has already gone ahead and appointed the very people who supported the invasion of Iraq, despite his 'promises' that troops would be removed from Iraq. Doesn't this demonstrate that the people's will is never taken seriously (if it really does exist)and that the destruction of Iraq was cold, calculated and deliberate? Particularly in light of the SOFA (or settee, whatever!!)Agreement being pushed for right now, which will mean that the US means to stay on in Iraq come what may?

In light with the above (and while it's lengthy, Iraq could take volumes of writing ...), if this had been done by Iraqis on US civilians, would they consider forgiveness? I think not.

The magnitude of what's been done to Iraq will go down in the annals of history portraying USA at its most barbaric (in the 21st Century!)- despite its attempts at rewriting history, which includes textbooks in Iraq.

In addition, the act of forgiveness would have to come from EVERY Iraqi, and I believe, that is highly unlikely. I agree with KM above: one cannot forgive an active lie.

In solidarity, Layla
Anonymous said…
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Anonymous said…
That wasn't referred to occupiers (who must be kicked out), but to the nature of human beings in general: not divine not devilish but miserably human.

We shall fight on tooth and nail for what is right, but in the end Death will take both us on the right side and them on the wrong one, all in the same miserable way.

P.S. Do you know a good remedy for the deep dark blues ?
Anonymous said…
Lets play with some numbers, just for the fun of a comparison.

Of Iraqs 30 million citizens, the US troops - with their warfriends -
has killed about 2 million.

That means if the world order would have been equally fair and square
the other way around, the Iraqi peoples armed forces should massacre torture bomb
shot molest starve and rape 20 mill. of the 300 million US citizens...?

The 6 largest crowded Cities in the US.

New York 8.1
Los Angeles 3.8
Chicago 2.8
Houston 2.0
Philadelphia 1.4
Phoenix 1.4
Total sum. 19.5

As I said Just some figures to play with...?

Anonymous said…
I agree with you on not forgiving the monstruous criminals. Just one thing: don't let the revenge project take up all of your "visual field", all of your heart, all of your remaining time. While waiting and working for victory, remember to leave some room for the little joys that life still has to offer to you. Otherwise you might risk losing your sanity in the process, and that would be a lucky "free point" on the enemy's "score card"... Take care.
Layla Anwar said…
Little Deer,

What an EXCELLENT comment !!!
You have the knack of summing things up in short paragraphs and getting the message across.
How true !
And thank you, as always.
Layla Anwar said…

More gems of wisdom.
You say :
"But if one asks for fergiveness while still carrying out the harmful act..and will continue to do so in the future..only a fool with no self respect will accept the continuation of the act."

Absolutely wonderful... You also summed it up beautifully well.
Thank you.
Layla Anwar said…

some are more devilish than others and some more humane than others...

And yes I do know a remedy for the deep dark blues --- Dance them away - albeit for a little while. MOVEMENT is always a subtle weapon.
Layla Anwar said…

Great points. I love the calculations, partly because am lousy with numbers.
A little correction though.
Prior to the sanction years, Iraq accounted a 25 million or so.
After the sanctions years, it dwindled down to about 23 million or so. And after our liberation, it is around 20 million or so.
30 million is way too much of an estimate. Do not trust the Americans or the puppet Iraqis to give you the real size of Iraq's population.
But hats off to your mathematical analogies.
Anonymous said…
"So you blame G.Bush huh ?
And who voted for him and his consorts twice, an 8 years tenure - my grandfather ???"

Please get your facts right before your declare them. The record will show that not only did the majority of the popular vote go to the other candidate in both years, but the illegalities in both elections involved a stealing of an office. This is the absolutely low point in American political history and the consequences (which include the "war against terrorism" - which many of us saw for what it is - the LIE you suggest) are only beginning to be apparent.

Let me state it again, twice in four years the majority of the American people - who are not a very informed citizenry - voted AGAINST G.W. Bush but he was forced on us anyway. There are other disgraceful and largely secret occurrences that accompany this grab for power because - and no one seems to get this - America is not really a democracy at all! If the last 8 years are not evidence of that, I don't know what is.

Further, the American public has been consistent in its majority opposition to the "war," demanding over and again that the troops be brought home. But despots pay no heed to their public - even beating and jailing those strident voices who might infect others with doubt.

Having read extensively on the subject of "the war on terror," I am utterly convinced that the idiots who should be convicted of war crimes, the ones who perpetrated this against all opposition and illegally, had no idea of the enormous damage they would inflict in any number of areas we could discuss. Raw, male, testosterone-driven power of the kind they exhibited is utterly blind as well, as a deer in rut. You suffered first, but the suffering has only begun for the US and other countries. The world as we have known it is ended because of the idiocy of these power-crazed, intellectually handicapped, greedy bastards! I hate them more than words can say. And I do not respect you for so carelessly stating that I or anyone else with a brain voted for this. I have suffered terribly for my outspoken opposition and I refuse to shut up now. You owe me and others like me respect for we have done, all we can do for you and for others. You really have no idea whatsoever of the true political climate of America. And you need to extend to others the same freedoms you claim for yourself, as well as the moral high ground.
KM said…
Anonymous said…
i know evolved people are supposed to be forgiving but since forgiving has never been my forte i guess that means i am unevolved.

i know having hate in your heart hurts the one who has it, but i won't go down that road as i offended once before by saying this.

if it were me, i would say NEVER. but realistically i think it is like forgiving a person. if one believes a person has changed (i am not a great believer people ever really change their stripes, but of course some of them do thru some great overhaul or transformation) then it makes room for the idea of forgiveness.

so, if there were evidence america was actually changing and not interested in world domination..well then that might be a good time. IOW

not likely to happen in my lifetime. in fact, not likely to happen during the lifetime of any person alive today.

maybe in a few generations.

but individually, i think it is likely some iraqis will not blame every single american and their can be the possibility of not every single iraqi not forgiving every single american. but then i don't believe every single american is responsible for this war.

but, if it were me, i would never forgive. that would be stupid and against human nature. that would be like forgiving the wolf that ate my child. they get hungry the next day and are going to be eating somebodies child tomorrow. best to stay away from the wolf.

Anonymous said…
I have suffered terribly for my outspoken opposition and I refuse to shut up now. You owe me and others like me respect

really? how much have you suffered? given any limbs lately. how about your first born.

how much respect do people owe you and me who are against the war?

you need to have you head examined. just STFU and think about the consequences of your words. we know nothing of suffering. NOTHING.

Anonymous said…
Do not fergive an active lie.

KM, you said A big part of when one asks for a fergiveness, is that the offender must realize the destruction their acts have created.

the official red state US position is over on the end of the spectrum of expecting iraqis to thank america for liberating it. they are not anywhere near asking for forgiveness. i think clinton apologized to the people of chile and guatemala in 99.

maybe in a few decades america will be in some mode of asking for forgiveness, but it ain't happening yet. not by a long shot. we haven't even apologized to the vietnamese as far as i know.
Anonymous said…
To Anonymous @ 4:45 PM

If indeed Bush stole the elections, then where was the popular uproar in America like what was seen in Mexico in 2006 when Felipe Calderón claimed victory in its presidential elections? Besides, there should have been a landslide against Bush, at least in 2004, making it impossible to 'steal' another election.

Take this from someone who has seen the workings of the so-called anti-imperialist sentiment in America at close quarters. This struggle or dissidence or antiwar 'movement' or whatever else you may call it - it lacks purpose, meaning and seriousness. All you have is a bunch of pranksters, faux radicals and sundry cowards wanting to retreat because they perceive their side to be losing and their entitlements diminishing. Although there may be some activism going on, it involves no struggle and sacrifice whatsoever, let alone any shred of solidarity with the victims on the other side whose lives, cultures and histories are being destroyed.

Bashing Bush and his cohorts to gain cheap absolution is reprehensible. Just being opposed to him means diddlysquat. What was and is being done to Iraq and Afghanistan is the collective responsibility of every American.

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