On Love & Sectarianism.
Where else but... HERE
Endless Beginnings...
For God's sake, tell me where to begin? I was set out to write about Father's day and the thousands of fatherless Iraqi children.The thousands of killed fathers, the thousands of fathers trying desperately hard to feed their families, daily putting their lives at great risk, in a country gripped by demonic violence. The exiled fathers, selling scraps in Amman and Damascus, bearing the brunt of daily insults. Or the unemployed fathers, feeling torn inside watching their kids go hungry. Or maybe the head bent down father, slouched posture, hiding scars beneath a worn out shirt. The father that has been imprisoned, humiliated, tortured and sodomized, unable to look his children in the eyes... Or maybe I should write about sexual torture and sodomy instead... The further horrors emerging from Abu Ghraib and the Taguba report... More reports of "abuse". And I am sure Abu Ghraib is not over. I am certain that more Abu Ghraibs are taking place in Iraq, in those shadowy deten
Comments
I thought your comparison of Shia to religious Jews totally gratuitous. There was no reason for that comparison.
Did you mean to enhance their NAJASSA in the eyes of your readers by making this comparison with Jews.
I am not a religious Jew but I do admire their discipline in following all these laws to the letter.
Besides you have to feel sorry for them as they are having the Gay Pride Parade rammed down their throats in Jerusalem.
You said "I thought your comparison of Shia to religious Jews totally gratuitous."
The comparison wasn't made to Jews, but to..
"hardcore Zionist Jews who believe in the purity of their own race/religion as being superior and above everyone else."
If he won't stick up for her when he is supposedly 'courting' her, then it's unlikely that he will try harder to impress her after they are married.... IF they ever do.
I appreciate that he may have great respect for his mother; but he has demonstrated no respect for your cousin in failing to speak up FOR her.
I doubt that he will ever leave his mother and father to become 'as one' with his wife.
But not all Lebanese men are like him. She should find one that has some respect for her.
Do you consider yourself an expert on sectarianism, what about your own sectarianism? You act as though it is only Shias who are not anti- Iranian like you who prefer their children marry from their faith, when the fact of the matter is that every faith has their share of people who think like this....
My personal example breaks your sectarianism stereotype...
And I know of other examples that do as well...
My husband's best friend's Mother is Sunni and his father Shia, and his wife's Mother is Sunni married to a Shia....
I have been married for almost 25 years now and my in laws love me...This is not to say they were happy in the beginning to know their son or brother married an American convert, as I am sure that my Mother in law being a typical, old fashioned "Arab" woman would have preferred to pick the bride...
But now that they have gotten to know me, it is a entirely different story...
I am just curious, when you married your Shia Lebanese husband, did he and his family know how you felt about anti-Persian Saddam? And are you sure that your own prejudices, thinking, or acting didn't negatively affect your marriage?
How sad when we have to sit here and differentiate between the two like it actually means anything. Layla, you rock, and I thank you for your thoughts and sharing them. I side with you on just about everything you ever say/write. You're honest, brave, and above everything, intelligent.
Everyone else who keeps mentioning Muslim sects in their NAME, let alone their posts - SHAME ON YOU.
And two words: grow up. Or as Layla would say...grow the FUCK up. :)
Hugs,
Bashar
Layla always brings up Shia sectarianism, which is why I decided to call my self a western Shia woman on her blog....Layla is fixated on so-called Shia sectarianism....
I believe Layla is disgsuted not by the sect of the Shia in itself, but by those Shia who allow their sect to override all sence of nationalism, humanity, and duty as is the case with the vast majority of Shia who collaborated with the occupation simply because their "god" (Sistani) told them to collaborate.
The only difference is, Western men are in awe of their aggressive post-feminist women, so they tend to keep their feelings to themselves, accumulate frustration and the most "serious" cases have sexual problems or turn gay in despair.
WHY must so many guys, once they 'find their love', then make a decision to control?
Here he was...attracted to har at poolside and then he tries to lay down the law. Beacuse she now (in his mind) BELONGS to her??
All men need to konw how to do laundry, how to shop..how to shop for groceries, how to cook, how to clean, how to take care of maintenance AND let a woman be her own woman and allow her to grow into her full potential.
Even if you had forgotten your sign in name and posted under a thousand anonymous, I would still recognize you.
Let me ask you something iraqi Jew, when will you get rid of your inferiority complex ? Your tribal mind set ? Your racist projections? Your manipulations, your lies and your deceit ?
Frankly, let me ask you something, don't you feel a tad stale with this broken record of yours --- the forever, eternal, never ending " pity me am so/was so oppressed" . But tell you what, a chunk of the shias learned your game, you must be a good teacher.
As for the najassa - well you said it not me....Neurosis has dangerous down side to it ;-)
To pique your curiosity even further, he didn't need to be. Hezbollah is only a symptom of the greater malaise.
Not all Lebanese men are like him -I don't know...I have not dated all lebanese men. But that was not the jist of the post, nor was his "respect for his mother". I need to remind you and everyone else here that Sunnis and Shias belong to the SAME religion.
But I agree with you - she needs to relegate the sod right onto the back burner.
You honestly bore me to tears. You're so predictable, you make all american psychologists potential candidates for the nobel prize for their crappy psychometric tests and evaluations...
Let me tell you something western shiite, your in laws maybe didn't accept you at first because you were an american, but they prefer an american to a sunni. And the idiotic female that you are has fallen into exactly the same trap.
I can write a post about your hubby double standards when with a yankee female and an arab one...but I shall leave that for mezzeh time...ya3nee an appetizer.
I've given you enough so far...be grateful now.
Thank you. It is the few Iraqis like you, (and a few others I come across on this blog and in real life) that keep affirming to me that all is not lost...
Isn't "strange" that those westerners, yankees, europeans, and even pro persians categorically refuse to believe it when us, IRAQIS, from whatever sect, mixed or not, tell them in their face that SECT was NOT A PROBLEM of OURS but is a something THEY CREATED. And they still refuse to believe...
They don't actually refuse to believe, they actually PERSIST IN THEIR LIE to cover up the Truth. OUR TRUTH as IRAQIS, what we lived, what we experienced, our reality, our history, our FACTS thrown in their collective faces...but they persist, like this grotesque western shia woman and you and I and a few others need to persist as well....
Hugs back.
Well said! The small god of anti chess sistani and the slightly greater god khomeini, and the ever slightly greater god khameini and where is the ultimate God ?
I am getting very tired of this nonsense. I shall turn into a surgeon and nip it in the bud whenever I set it's malignancy appear reproducing itself...
And of course, the majority of the cabinet members were Shias, as you rightly stated.
Are you the same Veronica that quibbled with me on esthetics and aesthetics over a year ago ?
What are you on about veronica ? I can tell from your comment you never lived in the ME. And I can also tell you know fuck all about Arab men and women.
There is a happy medium between walking naked in the streets and looking like a tent. Of which you obviously know nothing of. Besides that was not the crux of the post. That was only an "appetizer"...
Maybe you know all about appetizers....hahahahahahahahaha
The problem is not shopping, doing laundry, cooking or who will wash the socks and take the bin out...
The problem in this case - is that he met her by the pool so obviously he was half naked himself...but suddenly he wants a woman from Qum...
I say let him go and find a chadored woman or better still let his maman find him one, since he has no balls to stand up for the woman he's been dating for over a year already...
And as Bob Marley says - Don't jump in the water if you can't swim.
Sounds alot like trust may not be there too.
Wants to take her, shape her, mold her into his own creation.
I hope she does not lose her 'self'
The problem in this case - is that he met her by the pool so obviously he was half naked himself...but suddenly he wants a woman from Qum..."--Layla
Layla have you ever considered that if the man was attracted to your cousin in a bathing suit by a pool, he must realize that other men would be attracted to her under the same conditions. Maybe he would like for an attraction to her under those conditions be solely for him in their marriage?
They do have women only beaches in Lebanon, where married women can go to who don't want men they are not married to looking at them and being attracted to them....
If you are going to get married and you want to stay married, why would you want other men besides your future husband looking at you and being attracted to you?
But 'we' dont know if her motive is to attract the eyes of men. If she's going to go swimming, she has a right to wear a swimsuit and not a fur coat.
Dont place a guilty verdict upon her just because she'd rather wear a swimsuit to a beach.
But, Im not a female and I can only assume that it can be a royal pain to have some of these men staring at you as you go about Life. Women DO have to put up with some strange stuff that is overlooked by males.
just my opnin
but WSW, dont you believe its a bit overboard to have one's possible-future mother in law having thoughts of religious divisions and apparent superiority?
Sounds to me like they have already made a special place for her in their minds.
"Let me ask you something iraqi Jew, when will you get rid of your inferiority complex ? Your tribal mind set ? Your racist projections? Your manipulations, your lies and your deceit ?"
Don't you think you are a tad overreacting to my comment?
Maybe,all differences aside, you think I'm right this time.
re:
"that SECT was NOT A PROBLEM of OURS but is a something THEY CREATED. And they [Westerners]still refuse to believe...
They don't actually refuse to believe, they actually PERSIST IN THEIR LIE to cover up the Truth. OUR TRUTH as IRAQIS, what we lived, what we experienced, our reality, our history, our FACTS thrown in their collective faces..."
That is not true Layla.
Please; I plea to you, do not intentionally or unintentionally alienate those of us that are struggling (intellectually) to gain a 'lucid' understanding of our regional or even global 'dysfunctional family' in an effort to improve our world.
To accuse us [Westerners] all of ignorance is one thing; and arguably justifiable; but to accuse us all of being complicit in concealing the truth is another thing and ill founded.
However, to put it bluntly, I will accept many, many, many more metaphorical �punches� from you and much, much, much, harder than you have given or dare I say are even capable of giving; Because; as a citizen of the member states of the �axis� of the �willing�, I genuinely feel that I owe it and much more to you and yours.
I already knew that we have caused nationalistic divisions among the people of the Middle East, and I have never attempted to conceal it; but did not know about sectarian divisions we caused until last week.
I know now that we caused various divisions as a means of dividing the Austro-Ottoman alliance 100 years ago, by advancing regional pockets of sectarian/nationalistic divisions. For example; through promises of national autonomy we created divisions, even though we had already divided the booty with the Sykes-Picot Agreement, 16 May 1916
I thank you again for showing me a new direction; ie, �listening to the locals� as opposed to listening to western so called �specialists�.
http://www.youtube.com/user/namirkh2
Respectfully Yours, My captain.
Sounds to me like they have already made a special place for her in their minds."--km
Knowing Arab woman and culture the way that I do after having been married into it for almost 25 years, this is fairly normal when the son decides to pick his own wife who the Mother doesn't know and did not pick for her son. Even if the woman he picked were a Shia that the Mother didn't know or pick, the mother would probably look for some kind of problem in her...
It is up to the man to put his foot down to his mother in regards to his decision for marriage, but in a respectful way...
Yes, I can see that. Potential mother in laws can be or are involved in the relationship. I guess even the mother of the daighter can have a say in the guy that the girl/lady would like to marry; can work both ways....even aside from religion.
Guess again that it depends on what type of individual the mothers are. Seems to me that in what Layla is talking about is "bad news" though.
If it was me and my mother was having probelms with the woman I plan to love and marry, I would set her down and get down to the heart of the matter.
Seems to me that Lalya has called this right. The would-be-mother-in-law is causing a crack in the relationship and will probably continue to create a wider one...and they guy apparently has no balls and would rather please momma.
On my little blog-spot I have, I have 2 pictures. She is Egyptian. There is Not One Thing I hesitated to do to defend her in a similar situation. And thats all I'll say on that.
The guy needs to fight to defend her honor
NUR
hey, that was very funny about the fur coat. LOL.
I suppose WSW would love to see chadored females around, I suggest to her to move to Qum herself and leave her USA.
I will tell my relative of your brilliant ideas about going to women only beaches. Maybe he should go to a male only beach too coz according to my relative he's a hunk. Tell you what Western Shiite, I will also suggest to Nasrallah to have segregated pavements, lanes, schools, universities and the rest...
Or better still, I will suggest to him to import the whole retarded Iranian scene to lebanon. Oh but wait, he's already doing that, and the fuck head sistani is doing it in Iraq.
Oh my, Western shiite, you must be so fucking proud of yourself now...living in the usa and advocating iranianism in the arab world. What a cow you are.
the message from my brother still holds - stick your kemal attaturk up your ass. LOL.
I was saying HI to lovely NUR.
but HI to you too
It seems WSW has her life right where she wants it. She says she enjoys living in America, traveling to Lebanon just to visit on ocassions but keep her distance from Khoemani, but if the money is good then that's another story.
Surely you don't expect me everytime I write a post to give percentages and say for instance -- 5% of westerners are not persisting in the lies and 95% are.
And you admitted it even yourself, you knew nothing of the sectarianism being concocted by BOTH the US and Iran until you visited this blog - and that's 5 years into the occupation ! So I guess the lies were/are operational. Besides, do you really think I care if a few are alienated or not ? A whole nation has been wiped out and you expect me to care about a few sensitivities?! That is quite arrogant in my opinion.
regards to you .
you and I agree ? maybe only in your dreams.
one more thing, notice how Western Shiite AVOIDS the real issue. The bf's parents REFUSE because of SECT. My relative is a muslim, but they are fucking sectarians. And of course trust this western shiite to twist and bend...grotesque deceitful creature that she is.
Ok; I jumped the gun.
I'm not personally offended; nor did I intend to appear egotistical.
I was just hoping to give you a better understanding of western psyche; by pointing out that we do not 'all' conceal the truth.
I just thought that you might alienate some western 'moderates'; who I, perhaps misguidedly, see as being able to contribute something toward western 'humanitarianism'.
Perhaps we can't help at all;
Perhaps freedom can only be taken and not given.
"A whole nation has been wiped out and you expect me to care about a few sensitivities?! " No I don;t; but I fear others do.
Then again; who needs them, if that's their primary driving force.
Many women prefer these kind of beaches, even many who do not even dress Islamically...And what is it with you and the chador? As I told you most Shia women in south Lebanon who are in support of Sayed Hassan do not even wear the chador...There are even a good number of women who do not even dress Islamically who are in support of the Sayed and Hizbollah in the Dahia and the South...You can even ask your cousin to verify this if you don't want to take my word for it...
You wouldn't be letting your own sectarianism think for you, would you...?
You are the one that brought up that maybe Layla's female relative would be better to go to an all-female beach. Layla did not bring up the all-female beach. You did. .
Its seems yer not too up or educated on the Shia way that is rooted inside Iran and compare that to how you practice in america; or what is going on inside Iraq.
Go to youtube and see for yerself how Iranian women are routinely harassed for not covering themselves properly as the turbanites demand. Some of the women are taken away and killed by the Iranian government.
.
NUR