For those who care...
By the way, my Uncensored Blog is regularly updated, even though I don't necessarily advertise it...
Endless Beginnings...
For God's sake, tell me where to begin? I was set out to write about Father's day and the thousands of fatherless Iraqi children.The thousands of killed fathers, the thousands of fathers trying desperately hard to feed their families, daily putting their lives at great risk, in a country gripped by demonic violence. The exiled fathers, selling scraps in Amman and Damascus, bearing the brunt of daily insults. Or the unemployed fathers, feeling torn inside watching their kids go hungry. Or maybe the head bent down father, slouched posture, hiding scars beneath a worn out shirt. The father that has been imprisoned, humiliated, tortured and sodomized, unable to look his children in the eyes... Or maybe I should write about sexual torture and sodomy instead... The further horrors emerging from Abu Ghraib and the Taguba report... More reports of "abuse". And I am sure Abu Ghraib is not over. I am certain that more Abu Ghraibs are taking place in Iraq, in those shadowy deten
Comments
Nice one.
What thoughts must he have had going on in his hard little head all that time since he first saw you at the wedding?? Ya know what I mean?
Here's a music video from Morocco that you can probably relate to considering ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PknZps9AamU
SMART music video link !!!
But do remember, I don't resort to hocus pocus magic to keep "them", it's the other way round...
There are many reasons why a hymen can "fail" to bleed on the wedding night, many reasons besides sexual intercourse why it can have broken or stretched before, and there are baby girls who are born without one.
But then these considerations belong to the realm of science, whereas the average Arab macho lives and thrives in that of MYTHOLOGY.
if yes, what differences did u notice and whom do u prefer?
To my utter delight he nearly choked on his coffee. He coughed and coughed and I just smiled."
That was a good one:) He deserved it. But you know what, this guy is at least honest. Many other Arab guys would perfectly conceal their real opinions and notoins for the sake of fun!
I have always reflected on the Arab obsession with virginity.
After years I have come to the belief that the conceptions of virginity is a part of being Arab!
However, definitons and perceptions of what makes a woman virgin change over time taking a path similar to the ones taken by Pennisula Arabs in knowing Allah from the deserts of Arabia to Bahgdad, Cordoba and Cairo......
Virginity is like the complex Arab notion of cleanliness, and maybe even linked to it.
It is a metaphor of Arab spirit.
It about keeping one's roots well grounded, it is emotional transparency, loyalty and generosity, blood values, and consistency. It is not a material value as such, rather a poetic one, as it were.
Hymens, whether broken or intact, should be insignificant as they were only important for preserving tribal integrity at times of mutual raids and lootings in the deserts at ancient times.
Wonder when his last sex sessions was Layla.
I re-read the case in Lilles which seemed to have made some sort of legal upheaval, to be fair and am no defence attorney to the husband, his wife said she was a virgin as in no past sexual relations and later admitted that she lied...
Now the story is given in two different versions by the court and the husband- the interesting and typically classic thing is that we HAVE NOT READ the wife's version of the case.
I believe she has been so harassed about the whole virginity thing and reputation and family honor etc...that she is probably sitting in some corner away from the world.
to be fair again, this guy was cleary a wanker but then to say that he would engage with a 12 yo is pushing it a little too much...
knowing full well that I would be receiving comments from islamophobes like yourself, I did say that Arab men whatever their religion- You need to revise your reading and comprehension skills, even though, me thinks you have none.
After all the whole concept of Virginity pre dated Islam. Have you read of the Virgin Mary at all ?
Thanks for your comment.
But please tell me what was so honest about this guy ? Absolutely nothing.
An interesting anthropological/cultural take on virginity. Sure, the perceptions of virginity change from one setting to the other and one period to the other...
What I found very interesting is that the Arab Gulf, have less hang ups about non virgin divorced women than the so-called Arabs from the "Levant".
I think their fitra is more in line with natural laws - ie divorced = non virgin, than the so called urban, sophisticated arab male whose mentality is still stuck in the Jahiliyah.
Furthermore, one thing your analysis did not shed light on, why is honor, virtue, etc...stuck between a woman's legs to the exclusion of others ?!!!
Methinks Arab men are OVERSTRESSED, just like the tale's tyrant Shahryar, and need to get rid of their irrational fears and power obsession, be reconciled with the "good" of the Feminine and simply enjoy being alive together in harmony with Nature.
Good analysis. You are right.
In the Judeo-Christian culture, and am using the word culture as opposed to religion, even though there are overlaps, women are viewed as passive being, with no power and therefore prone to evil and the root of evil as in the Adam and Eve myth which does not have its equivalent in the Koran for instance - and have to be therefore be contained. In the Islamic culture, women are perceived as you elaborated above.
In Arabic, FITNA has two meanings.
- Beauty and Chaos.
End result is the same whatever the culture.
I am the one who is puzzled by your question - not really.
Lashing out ? Are you trying to put me on the defensive here or take me on a guilt trip ?
This is my reply to you puzzled, and hopefully you will not be puzzled anymore.
During the Ottoman empire, we were told it's not the time.
During the Colonial empire, we were told, we have a nationalistic revolution here, it's not the time.
During the nation building period, we were told, there are other priorities, it's not the time
During the post nation building period, we were told, there is Zionism and Israel, this struggle primes all over the other ones, not the time .
During the 70's we were told, we have wars, and the left wing parties (hahahahha) said, " class struggle is more important" not the time...
During the 90's we were told, it's the Islamic ummah that counts, not the time and HARAM
At the turn of the 21st century, we are now told, why do you lash when you have neo-colonialism. Not the time ...
So I beg of you to tell me , when is exactly the right time according to your profound insight ????
Unfortunately she writes for one of Murdoch's rags.
I have never heard or read anything by Susan Maushart and never been to Australia either...
maybe when the wife saw what she was getting into, and realized how ugly her husband was - she deflowered herself...lol
I do not know whether you are aware Layla, that these type of personalised articles in which the subject in hand should be seriously and sensibly discussed are being twisted and have replaced what was once news in ALL forms of our daily media. They drive one crazy.
Bearing in mind,our Nation's moral and sexual values are are based on overwhelming acceptance of female titillation and male voyeurism with full feminist backing. And our shopping Malls even sell bras and sexy bikini knickers for 5 year olds.
We also now have journalists who are entertainers on personal issues that were once discussed personally between friends or family. Now, self-called corporate liberated professional women dominate the 'personalised'show. Only last week a columnist from the "Sydney Morning Herald" by the name of Miranda Devine, started off a national moral crusade in her column of the Sydney Morning Herald which resulted in Australia's world renowned photographer, Bill Henson having the police raid his photographic exhibition in Sydney and remove his photographs of a 13 year old nude girl Next day the police also visited the National Gallery and took Bill's photographs from there. And they are now deciding to lay charges against Bill for child-abuse. Bill's photography appears in many galleries around the world.
So Miranda who appears not to be able to discern between porn and a sensitive artistic endeavour to portray the conflicts of puberty years; created a National moral uproar and conflict for about 3 days which increased her boss's sales. Even the Prime Minister Rudd cashed in on it claiming these photos were disgusting! although like the majority of the countries people he had not seen them.
-good vote-catcher for next elections.
Miranda is just one of the many run-of-the-mill feminist columnists, who have taken on the role of our moral guardians. These are the same women whom used their social and moral public indignation to expose those Middle Eastern men who oppress and mistreat their women/wives. In turn this contributed greatly to the overall demonisation of Iraq.
Also on Aust's present moral values, most likely, Falah Al-Saeidi's beautiful painting of nude children would be regarded as child-abuse here.
Because of my overt reaction to the above perhaps this is why I rarely respond to your'uncensored Blog' even though I have many thoughts on subjects such as these.
Am really lost here- what are both on about ?
This comment section concerns the uncensored blog and not children...or am hallucinating myself ?
Frankly I don't see what my uncensored blog and that particular post has got to do with austalian feminism - if at all.
I am also entitled to express my views as a wOMAN and relate my experiences. They may not fall in line with a particular political line --- but then they never did.
Please read my reply to puzzled and you will understand what am saying.
thanks.
To be honest with you, I understood NOTHING of that exchange between you and bluegum.
Maybe it is due to the fact that I am not a follower of the Australian political/media/feminist scene.
I will leave it to both of you to sort it out.
I am not offended personally and I REPEAT, this comment section relates to my uncensored blog post and NOT to the children of Iraq.
Or maybe am just very thick and have missed the point --- so I am hoping that either one of you clarifies it to me because I don't get it at all.
unless I'm mistaken you appear to me, to be saying that I am taking some sort of lurid Freudian view of this topic.
Trust me, I'm not, the comparisson between Layla's writings and Mauschart's (ie. sexualy confident/humerous Feminist Style) can be seen in Layla's blogs ree "soccer" and her "date" and most certainly not her sombre topic re Kids.
If THAT is the concern you were trying to express, I can dismiss it for you here and now.
over and out.
Layla, this is an interesting one. You usually tune into what I am saying.
I understand clearly what you are saying. That Arab men would like to have a permanent virgin. And that this discussion has always been put off between male and female Arabs.
I think Aust. feminist female reporting
on this same issues does relate to what you are saying.
Women are women world over, and the majority all share the same sexual conflicts between male and female.
Bearing in mind the western women had this same discussion in the 60's, and according to Germaine Greer achieved their sexual revolution. Threw off their bras, fed their 13 year old daughters the pill with their Weet-bix and said go for it. The males had never had it so good. But maybe at this time in history they are getting bored, with sexual freedom and and 24 hour female titillation.As thousands of them are tuning into watching child-pornography on the web. This is not in small numbers it is in the thousands.- teachers, policeman, judges,labourers, professional public servants etc.
Now many of these women of the 60's and their daughters and grand daughters wear bras that are even more excruciating - that push their breasts up under their chins.
Also when viewing a female TV hostess speak - it is like watching a pair of talking breasts - because these breasts are made the star of the show.The men love it!
And as a woman when alighting a bus, I get tired of having some other females builders crack in my face as she stands on the step above me. (This is the term used here for jeans that only cover the anal part of your bottom - the term comes from building workers whose beer guts make their jeans slip down when they are working.
You should see the vast array of men from many countries oogling at this site while waiting for their trains and riding on public transport.
I hope Arab women can take note of this.
when they have these discussions on male/female sexual relationships - and really think about a MIDDLE ROAD.
Arab women are in a position to take a very hard and long look at what has happened to the so-called equally sexually free western women. And surely learn from this.
Or otherwise you will all be jumping out of the burning frying pan into the fire.
And like liberated feminist western columnists 40 years onwards you too will be discussing the same issue as you discuss here, in merely a synthetic shallow and entertaining way.
Personally,I would have told that chap it was none of his business. As I believe each one of us is entitled to own a piece of ourselves both spiritually and physically that we do not have to share with any other person
if we choose not to.
We may actually have some common ground, you and I, from which we can at least use as a foundation upon which can be build a possible consensus or at least an understanding on our separate positions on the greater issue.
I'd agree that the issue of gender equality for men/women in marriage obligations or wider social ones is primarily a matter of sociological realities rather than a matter of religious.
The paragraph in which you say "The males had never had it so good........" you go on to criticise women's "titillations".
as you have done previously.
Strange....
You're rightly critical of 'voyeurism' for men but I've never really viewed the word 'titillation' anywhere with the equal level of disdain.
Which brings me to ask how you could justify placing far more stringent grounds for ‘sexuality’ on women than men. That a man’s sexuality has breached acceptable standards at the point of voyeurism but that a woman has crossed the line at titillation.
I appreciate that morality is a relative concept in many cases and often determined by the valid demands of social grounds for the here and now or future and that religious grounds are merely; just as morality, nothing more than a means of advancing socially desirable practices through a form of quasi-laws.
eg, in some cultures a man offers his wife to a guest as a bed warmer, and rightly so, because without this practice the small isolated early Eskimo communities would have been starved of genetic diversity.
But I can see no valid grounds here, within the restraints of OUR CURRENT sociological requirements for depriving women of titillation but not frowning on titillation for men. I would have thought titillation a minimum prerequisite for sexual satisfaction in both genders. These unequal sexual restraints; the more draconian applying to women seems a solid grounds toward instilling shame in women for even climaxing.
To then go further and pin the root cause of child sexual abuse on the titillations of women rather than the sicknesses of men is sexist in the extreme.
Well, I can't relate to any of the stuff you mentioned because
1) I am not an australian
2) we don't have women walking around with their breasts in the air
But...
What bothers in your argument, is the following ---
Two arguments actually and maybe even more.
- on the one hand we have western feminists telling us (arab women) what we should do or not do, how to think or not think
and,
- on the other hand we have western women who have seen too much "liberation" or what they perceive as "liberation", tell us what we should do or not do, think or not think...
In both instances, OUR experiences, for whatever their worth are discounted. And in both instances we remain a LIEU OF PROJECTIONS for both of the above mentioned groups.
Now what I am stating is that we also have our issues to deal and they are many. ONE of them is the issue of "permanent virginity" - Virginity is not just a physical thing --- And while I have nothing against virginity, I also observer the total laxism when it comes to male sexuality in our societies.
Enhancing the forever dichotomy of the archaic imagery of the Madonna whom you marry and the whore whom you have fun with.
I can't write an essay on that, because this is not the space for it, but I do urge you TO NOT OVERSIMPLY matters the way you have done, because for one you are not doing us justice, and for two you are perpetrating the same projections we have been battling against .
In support of other Women of other cultures I honestly say our way is not the way to go. But if they desire to go that way so be it. That is their perogative.
Surely, if you told me you had a bad experience in a situation And warned me about these experiences it would not upset me, I would take it in or decide to ignore it.
As you have just said it yourself. I do not think this forum was really suitable to discussing such an issue as it would require an essay.
As I was aware of that I tried the short-cut method.
Thinking about it I can see where you might be concerned that the fanatics will use it for their own purposes.
because you have opened it up for the general public.
I think perhaps it was because there were really two elements to this article one or the other could attract different comment.
What you have said to me is you do not not want to hear about my western experiences. But you have just written a public article of your experiences. And opened it up for general discussion for all people from all races to comment on.
And when I do contribute, your response has been this has nothing to do with Arab women. If this is the case then perhaps you should have stipulated this post for Arab male and females only.
And if this is the case you are putting. Then I would say to this, perhaps you should not put articles that need such depth of discussion onto a broad forum such as this where western people are participating.
Also when I think about it if I did write an essay after going around the round-a-bout my conclusions about female values in western society would be the same as I have put to you in a nutshell. Unpalatable, but truthful as it may be.
Also there is another factor in this. There are Arab and other nationalities in this country that do take up our western values and transport them to their countries of origins. This is how US western values are exported around the world. This also adds another dimension to the problem of outside western women's influence on Arab women.
Anyway there is a positive to all this. You have solved the problem for me why I do not respond to some of these articles. And will steer clear of same in future. And other beautiful articles like the one about your Grandmother and yourself when a small child I will really take in and savour.
And perhaps if you re-think about what what I have written previously it may give you some insight why there has been little to no support or concern by the overwhelming of liberated western women of the world for the plight of Arab Iraqi women and children.
This is because sex and politics cannot be separated.
I am pinning the responsibility equally on both men and women in this case. It seems you have either missed my point. Or I have not been too good at expressing it
Firstly on the issue of titillation and
and voyeurism We all have responsibilities to ourselves and to others, and in the case of titillation and voyeurism both parties take part in the play. And as a woman I am upset when other women's thoughtless actions bring me down to just another female viewing commodity in our very commercial system.
Because this is the state of play and titillation has been accepted by women then I cannot be a hypocrite here and say men have a cheek looking. When it is all around you.
I watch some men perving on consciously over-exposed women and from where I watch is not a pretty sight. But then It is a bit hard to go around blind-folded. And I have read letters into the media from others sorts of concerned responsible men asking where are they supposed to look when they cannot get away from it. Like sitting opposite someone in the office or train etc. Because these men are also scared of being verbally abused, as they are aware on many occasions at any time the female in question might decide to complain. Depends what sort of mood they are in that day. Sad to say I had female work acquaintence that was guilty of this irresponsible behaviour.
Then there are the other males who claim to be pro-feminist I believe are also not honest when they say that they support the attitude women should be able to go around exposing their bits and pieces and men should ignore them. Because this is what feminists are demanding of men.
In all do not see this present female/male relationship in society as reflecting a very healthy society.
What I was inferring as to viewing child-porn is I find it now an interesting situation that only last week I realised the length and breadth of the men participating in this - to me this is a new phenonema. And what I am pondering here is it because like when one has a binge of one thing they become tired of it. Your a man. Do you get bored with the overdoing of exposure of female bodies.Is this caused by our present sexual values in society? Or is it again because of commercialism and the web?.
Anway while we live under a corporate society none of this will be resolved because the system is creating these situations where human bodies are either consumers or products.
Hope this makes some sort of sense. Why is it when it comes to sexual issues they are oh so complicated. regards.
Why relieved?
Because I MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD your original post to Layla where you refered to my comparison of her writing style.
I demanded clarification from you and you appeared to refuse to respond. So I assumed that you were shunning me.
It appeared that you were accusing ME of voyerism etc.
IF that was the case, it's most inappropriate and as such I still demand a clarification from you.
Although, from anyone elses position; you have an obligation to act if you feel it to be true and even further than just with words.
I was so upset by your 'apparent' accusation and wrote to you here several times, and still no response.
I just wanted the whole discussion to go away because the fact ALONE that I seemed to have been accused by you of such a perversity was so damn embaresing that I desided to delete all my post, which were after all only me ranting on in 'deffence' when in reality I wasn't even sure if I'd been accused at all.
So AGAIN I DEMAND TO KNOW IF YOU WERE ACCUSING ME! PERSONALY!!!!!
Please no ambiguity, just say it straight.... either ....
'YES; I believe you are a fucking so and so Phoneyid'and as a man of integrity I am obligated before God to do something about it'
OR
'NO; I meant no accusation at all on you phoneyid I was making broad generalities of our Western Societies at large.
I DEMAND TO KNOW IF YOU WERE ACCUSING ME! PERSONALY!!!!!
I only came back to this thread later today after having lunch. Before that. I had been busy writing on Layla's other blog. And I have been writing on this thread ever since it seems.
What I meant when I said I could understand why you thought Layla's writing style was like ...............
Was what I have already stated .I will attempt to make this clearer.- Because the one person experience genre has become a new media of entertainment which is replacing news. And though it was in the same style it was not the same as Layla's because there was no substance to it - even if they were discussing the same issue at hand - it would have little meaning. I am afraid I cannot make it any plainer than this. And I do not appreciate anyone demanding to know something that never ever was stated. Maybe you are cross with yourself because you are not on the same wavelength in the way we both communicate.
I never accused you of anything. Nor could I understand why you were apologising.
Are you sure you have not caused your own anxiety because the REALITY IS THAT NOWHERE HAVE I ACCUSED YOU OF ONE SINGLE THING. SO STOP YOUR SILLY NONSENSE.
Again, I think you are not understanding me even though I tried to make myself very clear.
You complained about women your end being too liberated whatever that means.
I said to you there are two sorts of projections ARAB women need to deal with
1) WESTERN FEMINISTS THAT TELL US WHAT TO DO, THINK, ACT
2)WESTERN WOMEN WHO ARE FED UP WITH WOMEN'S LIB (however it is perceived) and PROJECT ON US THEIR OWN ROMANTIC ORIENTALIST VIEWS ON HOW WE SHOULD BE.
and I said IN BOTH CASES THIS DOES NOT DO US ANY JUSTICE - BECAUSE IT ROBS US FROM OUR OWN EXPERIENCES.
In other words Bluegum, you don't live in this part of the world. And you don't have to face daily, and I mean daily the 10000 sorts of harassements, inuendoes, blatant sexism, etc..that I and other have to face.
I suppose you don't need to think for 2 hours on what to wear because maybe just maybe a bit of your elbow or upper arm is showing and that might offend the public, and I suppose you can allow yourself to sit in a café alone and have a cup without inviting the worst stares in the world and try to show that you are not a pros just because you are sitting alone in day light having a coffee.
And I suppose you can meet a guy without him having to immediately find out how many men you had in your life from the first 5 mn
And I suppose jobs are made available to you because your name is Ms Bluegum and you have a CV that merits consideration and you are not dismissed just because you happen to be a "female"....etc etc..
And if you read my post CAREFULLY, you would understand that the conclusion was tied in to the legal case in France where a man divorced his wife because she was was considered BAD MERCHANDISE.
And just as you are fed up with women's lib your end and its excesses, I and countless others here are fed up with this constant male backlash breathing down our necks.
Hope this makes it clear to you now .
I am a bit weary and omitted the main point in my last post to you. I would like to know what you meant when you said 'I am perpetrating the same projection we have been battling. and I am 'not doing us justice." Who are we and us. Do you mean women at large or Arab women. And what am I projecting. I do not know, but my instincts tell me you might be assuming that I am some sort of narrow minded moralist by what you have said.
Layla I have read reams of essays on topics you have discussed. They might have got some people doctrines, but to date I have seen no solutions on the practical side that have come out of these issues.
I put a question to you why is it that I write on your other blogs in a very simplistic style - head on and straight on. And nobody complains my writing is simple. Yet when it comes to sexual matters one has to be verrrry careful that one does not make one slight slip that might upset somebody. Well I do not see issues of sex any different to all the other issues we discuss. They are all about control, oppression and power.
And in fact most men, (not all I emphasise here) I am familiar with who go along with 'understanding' sexual female issues I find the most frightening.
What I was portraying in my writing was a society under corporatism. Where the corporation decides your sex life, what you will think, what you will wear, how you will be oppressed by men etc., without knowing it - it is a totalitarian society.
Perhaps the underlying basic problem here is that I do no share most progressive womens' views on how to achieve sexual freedom. Because I do not believe one group of people within a whole society can be truly free until the whole of the people in that society are all truly free.
Many progressive women do not share this view they just want to have equality to men, equality of their values, and equality of their activities and way of life.
Anyway no need to get nervous or feel threatened anymore that I might be western shia women disguised as Bluegum.
There are many men in this society that would ask the same question as that bloke. And women still get discriminated against in many jobs.
I can understand how you feel about having a coffee by yourself, and how you have to make sure you are covered up and the heavy hand of the men.
Layla As long as you are at the helm then you control your own destiny. No matter what any westerner women says, but some of the info would not be bad as a measuring stick. Because we did not have anything to measure from. I believe in some areas we improved and in others we threw the baby out with the bathwater and made things worse for women.
Ironically,what I hate most is westerner know-alls no-nothings deciding what is right for other people in the world. It gives me the gripes. Also I am probably ignorant on the womens issue circle side, and had no idea that you were so bombarded in this area.
Ironically, if they spent the time solving other peoples' problems on their own society's problems it would be much more productive.
Any way I am worn out how about you.
Just heard some good news petrol is up, Bush is pretending to care that unemployment is rising fast in the US.
Looks promising.
Take care,
Thankyou for finally taking the time to address my concerns."
I think that you have become almost as angry as I was yesterday and hence there is possibility of our exchange becoming rather heated or obscene.
It seems we agree that neither of us wish to further taint Laylas wonderful work and cause.
And so if you feel the need to take this further you can reach me at
phoneyid@hotmail.com
petrol prices are up.
Only last week I learned a new phrase.
'The 2000 Mile Salad'
I don't know how it is where you are, but here in Australia and USA the supermarket chains have the whole market stitched up.
We import lemons from USA, even though there's no shortage here.
Cellery from one state, parsley from another, carrots fom another etc.
If high petrol prices dicourages this, then the environment will be better for it I'm sure, and we will get a better quality regional salad.
What I would realy like to see is OPEC trade all it's oil in EURO.
The petrodollar's demise will be so damaging to the US Dollar and so quick that the US won't know what hit them.
Allan Greenspan (x-USA fed reserve chairman)once warned that a shift away from petrodallar would result in a decline of US$ value of 25%.... I'm no economist; but I'd venture to say......In your dreams Allan.
Look what happened to the US$ when Saddam changed Iraq's oil account to EURO the US dollar went from 80c to US$1.30 to buy a EURO, in the space of a year... but then we know what happened.
I say; If economic collapse in USA or even my Australia for that matter will save the lives of millions of children, then bring it on.
you are actually confusing and or confused.
Because it very well seems to me that you are the one who get all heated up everytime something is posted on my uncensored blog - broaching on female sexuality^and sexuality in the large sociological sense not to be confused with sex...a confusion that most western women (even the liberated ones since puritanism is very much embedded in the western culture despite the so called freedoms) in particular are prone to fall into.
And what I have been trying to tell you is that you basically don't have a right to 1) dismiss my/our concerns as ARAB women
and 2) compare US ARAB women to Western women because our historical specificities are different.
Therefore 3) your extrapolating from your australian /western experience and trying to apply it across the board does not do us justice.
All things being equal. To me the confused bit here is nonsense. Their is no confusion between us at all. Just a difference of opinion.
Because nowhere have I written anything about Arab women not having rights to decide their own destiny.
I did not get heated up it was you that took an offensive stance against my post.
What you are saying but not quite saying is that you see a puritanical streak in my writings. Well if that is the case.
Then perhaps there are some things in western society that you like and I may be attacking them.
When one reads most of the posts on this site it seems mine is the only one that has stirred you up. I find that interesting especially when one reads some of the others.
I do no appreciate you keep repeating that I am interfering with Arab women's lives. And I am really finding this offensive, as I continually post in support of Arab womens' lives. Nowhere have I said this so please stop repeating this. You keep repeating over and over and over and over.
I say to you go find where I have said this.
And I do think you are really upset because there are some things I said about western society that you like and you are not honest enough to say so.
This is all I am saying on this. The negativity of it all is really a waste of both our precious time.
again, I repeat -- if YOU have problems with Western feminism, these are YOUR problems and you are entitled to them.
But from there to extrapolate and presume that -- "And I do think you are really upset because there are some things I said about western society that you like and you are not honest enough to say so." is OFFENSIVE.
You are accusing me here of being dishonest. And I am telling you you have no bloody business tell us/me Arab women what to think, not think, or compare us to your women whom you described as lewd with imagery of cleavages, etc etc...
These are your words not mine.
I did not even broach Western women in this post. I was relating my experience as an Arab woman vis à vis an antiquated, macho Arab man whose only concern in life is the number of my boyfriends if at all --- and who gives himself permission to interrogate me on that matter as if I was some public property to be bought. Hence my backing of that story with the French legal case. Which you obviously REFUSE to see or link.
So I think if there is anyone here who is in total denial and in full projections it is definitely YOU.
Layla Anwar "The Truth and Nothing But the Truth" 9th June 2008
"I do urge you not to oversimplify matters"- Layla Anwar to Bluegum on this thread.
Our difference here Layla is that you differentiate between these two subjects
and I do not. I see the root cause in both cases coming from the same source.
You seem to want to set the guidelines here and not silence me when it comes to the rape of Iraq and silence me when it comes to the issue of in metaphorical sociological/sexual terms - rape of Arab women in general.
You can use the in-your-face approach when it suits you - but when somebody else uses it when it does not suit you you do not like it.
And on another one of your earlier posts
I cannot remember all the title but it was '.........woman". I notice you did not react as you have done here when one of posters referred to Arab women and emancipation, saying there must be a MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.
And can you honestly say that people who comment on your posts 'stick to the subject' of course not. Everyone either talks about something else or talks about something in relation to it.
So I would suggest next time you have an uncensored blog of this sort you should stipulate the rules or guidelines as to what you want to hear from the commentators. Or otherwise be 'truly consistent'
You asked me some time ago about referring any good books to you. Perhaps you could try some of Emma Goldman's,
And if it is fair enough to give it, then perhaps you should learn to also take it sometimes Layla because it seems everyone who does not agree with you all the time 'are branded the western enemy"
and I find that appalling. How would you react if the boot was on the other foot?
you are adamant about having the last word on my blog - be my guest. I shall not reply to you anymore. You're just going round in circles and making absolutely no sense.
You and I are Aussies, even though I’m [of] Greek [stock] and I believe you are of Arabic but born here like me.
If you were born in, and grew up in Australia to immigrant parents; as have I, then you may have shared some of my experiences.
My parents brought me up here as best they could and generally tried to teach me ‘the old ways’, and I may think I understand them well; but I must concede that I don’t have a full understanding or as deep an understanding of my paternal culture’s roots as I might have had if I grew up there.
In some ways, my understanding of each cultures’ quirks may be enriched in that I understand 2 cultures well.
If I were born and raised in Greece, I doubt that I’d have a Greek mate that’s converted to Islam, as I have here. I doubt that 2/3 of (me, brother & sister) would marry non-Greek, as we have, and I doubt that of all our kids that not one would read/write Greek (as is the case).
What am I dribbling on about?
the point is that I don’t think that I’m ‘as Greek’ as indigenous Greeks.
You and I are both Aussies, and although you may be afforded some greater acceptance by Mid-Easterners, by virtue of your ‘breeding’ than me, the fact remains that you are a citizen of the ‘coalition of the willing’ who attack Their Lands.
For that reason alone, I suggest that you ‘pussyfoot’ and don’t assume that your opinion is highly valued by them.
As far as I’m concerned ‘We owe them’, they don’t owe us.
Imagine how your blood pressure rises any time some Septic Tank (yankee/yank) leader ‘advises’ our nation as to what we should be doing. Now imagine if we were at war with them; how you’d feel then.
Don’t think that Layla is picking on you. You’ve read how she responds to some others.
I have been inspired by her and I think that she has inspired others from our Anglo-Centric nations.
Works such as hers are an important part of a grass roots movement.
Making bridges between her as a Mid-Easterner and me and you as Westerners and others ‘are’ the grass roots.
Please bluegum, understand that she has family locked up as we speak;
There is no good reason for our patience to be as short as hers.
She/They , as ‘our victims’ have the moral right IMO to accept advise and shun it, as they please.